ABC News 20/20: To Bring Her Children Home

To Bring Her Children Home

ABC News 20/20/1988-07-15

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Download: ABC News 20/20: To Bring Her Children Home (AVI format - 94.1MB) — (29:27, 52.8MB) — 1988-07-15

HUGH DOWNS

Good evening. I'm Hugh Downs.

BARBARA WALTERS

And I'm Barbara Walters. And this is 20/20.

ANNOUNCER

On the ABC newsmagazine, 20/20, with Hugh Downs and Barbara Walters. Tonight, the cult Children of God. Founded by Moses David Berg, he reportedly sanctioned sex among children.

MOSES DAVID BERG, CULT LEADER

I practice what I preach! And I preach sex, boy and girls. Hallelujah!

ANNOUNCER

To win converts, women members entice total strangers.

DEBORAH DAVIS, FORMER CULT MEMBER

Only the flirting was more than flirting. It was actually, you know, religious prostitution.

ANNOUNCER

Bizarre? This woman thought so. It's why she left "Children of God". But while she escaped, her four children remained in the cult. In Thailand, their father, determined to keep them.

VIVIAN SHILLANDER

I can't sit back and let that happen.

ANNOUNCER

But how could she find them half a world away? Tonight, the cult, the search and the searing climax.

TITO SHILLANDER

I don't want to go back to America! I want to stay in Thailand!

ANNOUNCER

Tom Jarriel tells of a mother's quest to bring her children home...

DOWNS

Tonight, an extraordinary account of a mother's struggle to save her children from a cult in Thailand. Now, you may never have heard of The Children of God, but it's out there. In public, members constantly invoke the name of Jesus, but in private, they reportedly see child sex and incest as part of their gospel.

WALTERS

We received word of the mother's plight from the offices of South Dakota Senator Larry Pressler. What at first had the sound of a custody battle became much more than who gets the children. Possibly at stake were matters of sexual abuse and mind control. Tom Jarriel has a startling, two-part report that's been nearly six months in the making.

TOM JARRIEL

[VO] Vivian Shillander is 35 years old. She lives in Sioux Falls, South Dakota. A year ago, Vivian appeared to be a typical American woman, going through a routine day, caring for her four - year - old son, Yoncha. But if you looked closer, you'd have seen that her life was in shambles. She was an emotional wreck because her four other children, John, April, Caleb and Tito, were trapped and had been for their entire lives in a destructive cult called The Children of God. Vivian believed, though she wasn't certain, that they were living halfway around the world in Bangkok, Thailand, with their father, Richard, who's also a member of the cult. She had not seen her children for over three years. Heartbroken, she desperately wanted them back.

VIVIAN SHILLANDER

I've made it a cause and a purpose in my life to get my children out of that organization. When you know that something is wrong, you can't sit back and let your children live that, I mean to never know anything else. I can't sit back and let that happen.

JARRIEL

[VO] Vivian herself was a member of the cult for 13 years and during that time, all of her children were born. A few years ago, she escaped with her youngest, Yoncha. Later, she became driven to get the other children out because she understood the abusive practices of the cult which she had abandoned. The Children of God was started in 1968 in California by this man, Moses David Berg. Years later, ex-members would call him demonic, evil, psychotic, but in the beginning, everything seemed very innocent. Berg preached to the hippie generation about Jesus and recruited them to join him in his all - consuming drive to save souls. Berg's entire family belonged, including his youngest daughter, Faith.

FAITH BERG, CULT MEMBER

We're just going to get out there and sing and dance and give them testimonials and show them the love of Jesus.

JARRIEL

[VO] Today, 20 years later, the cult continues to operate. Members, estimated in the thousands, live all over the world in communal houses. Berg himself keeps his whereabouts a secret, but he manages to maintain strict obedience from his followers through a series of commandments written in so - called "Mo Letters". But what's most striking about the cult is Berg's philosophy when it comes to sex.

MOSES DAVID BERG, CULT LEADER

I practice what I preach! And I preach sex, boys and girls. Hallelujah!

JARRIEL

[VO] In 1973, Berg introduced a practice he calls "flirty fishing". His older daughter, Deborah, who left the cult in the late '70's, explains the term.

DEBORAH DAVIS, FORMER CULT MEMBER

Well, Dad got the terminology from fishing, what Jesus said in the Bible, to go out and fish for men. And so, she was going to use the women to fish for the men, to bring them into the Kingdom of God through flirting. Only the flirting was more than flirting. It was actually, you know, religious prostitution.

JARRIEL

[VO] For Vivian, practices like flirty fishing made her doubt her commitment to the cult.

MRS SHILLANDER

I don't care how many scriptures Moses David came up with, you know, justifying it, when I read it personally, it didn't say that to me.

JARRIEL

[VO] A Children of God spokesman claims they stopped flirty fishing about a year ago, in part because of the spread of AIDS, but the practice, very disturbing to Vivian, was in full swing when she was a member of the cult. And even more alarming to Vivian were Berg's sexual doctrines involving children the very age of her own.

MOSES DAVID BERG

God created boys and girls able to have children by about the age of 12 years of age. My God! Now he's going to advocate childhood sex. He's going to advocate child brides. Yes!

JARRIEL

[VO] In fact, this Children of God publication has a chapter called, "My Little Fish," which shows photos of children in suggestive poses. Here, the caption reads, "That Come Hither Look". There are also photos of children together and with adults. [interviewing] Is there a Mo writing of "thou shalt conduct incest"?

MRS SHILLANDER

His writings point to it, yes, they do. He has writings where he has definitely said it's okay.

JARRIEL

[VO] According to Berg's daughter, Deborah, Berg himself has had an incestuous relationship with his other daughter, Faith, for years, although they both deny that's the case. In fact, a spokesman for Berg told 20/20 that he does not advocate incest. Yet Deborah claims her father did approach her for sex and that was the catalyst to her leaving the cult.

MS DAVIS

My dad was just an evil personality that was not hearing from God at all. I had to quit looking at him as "the man is my father" but as a leader of a worldwide movement who is destroying people's lives.

JARRIEL

[VO] The same destructive forces drove Vivian out of The Children of God. July 1984 was her turning point. She left Bangkok, Thailand, where she had been living with her husband, Richard and their five children and she returned to Sioux Falls with only the baby. The cult leader, she said, wouldn't let her take the others. Reportedly, keeping children is a cult policy. While longing for her four lost children, Vivian lived here in this small apartment in Sioux Falls, disoriented, unable to hold a job and subsisting on welfare. [interviewing] How did it affect your daily life when you thought you might not get them back?

MRS SHILLANDER

Oh, I was - I wanted to die.

JARRIEL

[VO] Halfway around the world in Thailand, the children continued to live the lives of cult members. They were programmed to perform on the streets to bring in new converts and they often travelled to refugee camps along the Thai - Cambodian border with their father, Richard.

RICHARD SHILLANDER

Thank you, Lord. Thank you, Jesus.

JARRIEL

[VO] Incredibly, the children sometimes performed before crowds of refugees. Although they were far away, they were never forgotten by their mother who finally in December of 1986, after nearly three years of recovery from the harmful effects of the cult, decides she's ready to go after her children. The task seems overwhelming, but she's determined to try. As her plan unfolds, each step is crucial for its success. June 1987, Vivian hires Mike Intravia, a private investigator, to head up the operation. September '87, she joins the First Baptist Church of Sioux Falls and makes an emotional appeal to the entire congregation for help. They agree to take on the cause, eventually helping to arrange over $25,000 in loans to help fund the investigation. [interviewing] What compelled you to help her? You must have a lot of people that come by wanting help.

PASTOR CHUCK LANDON, FIRST BAPTIST CHURCH

Not very many of them have quite the same kind of story.

JARRIEL

[VO] November 1987. Vivian is granted temporary custody of her children. This is crucial because without this court ruling, the investigator, Mike Intravia, will not carry out the operation. But now, with all systems go, the operation shifts to Bangkok, Thailand, on the other side of the world. By mid - January 1988, Vivian, Mike and his assistant, Scott Biondo, are all there. The search is under way. Mike and Scott spend long exhausting days looking for the children but with no results. The investigation is adrift and Vivian's confidence is shattered.

MRS SHILLANDER

Can you imagine three and a half years just waiting? I mean, I have cried, I have - I've really agonized. I could try to say it's a hopeless cause, just leave them where they are. I can't do that.

JARRIEL

[VO] Desperate, Vivian and the investigators decide to focus entirely on the Thai Immigration Department. On January 28th, the children's father, Richard, has an appointment here to renew his visa. Yet, there's absolutely no certainty he'll show up because if he doesn't, there's no serious penalty. A long shot? Yes. Still, this looks like their only hope, so Mike and Scott meet with Immigration officials. They agree to help as long as their identities are protected. An unofficial deal is struck: if they learn of the address of the father, they'll tip Mike off. It's now Wednesday, January 27th, the day before the big gamble.

SCOTT BIONDO, PRIVATE INVESTIGATOR

My feelings about tomorrow is, first of all, yes, it is a big day and hopefully, it will be that big day. It will be the day where everything goes down and everything goes down smoothly.

JARRIEL

[VO] Later, the three meet for a last minute planning session where Mike describes the possibilities for the following day. For instance, what if Richard comes into Immigration with the children? Or what if he doesn't show up at all? Or -

MIKE INTRAVIA, PRIVATE INVESTIGATOR

Richard comes in without the children.

MRS SHILLANDER

All right.

MR INTRAVIA

Okay? Which is probably going to be the greatest likelihood. They will required him, then, to bring the children in that day. Then we'll come in a recover the children.

JARRIEL

[VO] And Vivian is warned to expect resistance.

MR INTRAVIA

Be prepared that the kids may not want to go. You don't really know what they've been told over the past years and what I'm really getting at is your emotions. Try not to let it really hurt you, okay?

JARRIEL

[VO] Mike then places a very tough decision in Vivian's lap: what if Richard shows up at Immigration but with only one or two of the four kids? Does she want Mike to seize those children on the spot and hope eventually to find the others? Or does she want the officials to bluff Richard and tell him to return the next day, hoping he and the kids won't vanish, never to be located again?

MR INTRAVIA

It's a hard decision and, you know, you're going to need to think about it and just tell me tomorrow morning.

JARRIEL

[VO] Faced with a decision no parent would want to make, deeply torn, Vivian holds off.

MRS SHILLANDER

To me, it's a terrible choice. To think - to have to not get all the children. My purpose in this whole thing is to be successful. I want them delivered from an organization that is destructive.

DOWNS

What would you do? When we come back, Vivian Shillander's decision and raw, unexpected drama on the streets of Bangkok.

[COMMERCIAL BREAK]

WALTERS

We continue now with our story, "Children of God". Here's what we've seen so far: reports that the cult, founded by Moses Berg, sanctioned child sex and incest and that women in the group were encouraged to prostitute themselves to win converts. The effort of Vivian Shillander to save her children from that life had taken her from South Dakota to the streets of Bangkok. Tom Jarriel picks up the story.

JARRIEL

[VO] Thursday, January 28, 1988. It's just before dawn in Bangkok, Thailand. While the Buddhist monks receive their morning meal, across town, Vivian Shillander prepares for the biggest day of her life. After three and one half years of separation from her children, today she will either rescue them from a cult or perhaps lose them forever. It's a day filled with awesome possibilities.

MRS SHILLANDER

I'm very nervous. I just feel like the bottom's going to fall out if I don't - if something doesn't go my way.

JARRIEL

[VO] By 8:00 am at the Immigration Office, everyone's in place. Mike is stationed inside with the officials. Scott remains outside and Vivian is hidden in this van in the parking lot. She sits behind tinted windows so she can see out but Richard, should he appear, will not be able to see in. Now, it's decision time. Mike slips away from his post to press Vivian for an answer to her excruciating dilemma. What should be the plan of action if Richard does come in, but with only one or two of the children?

MRS SHILLANDER

Well, I don't know what to do. Tell me, Mike. Give me your advice.

MR INTRAVIA

I think we should just take - take the child or children that come in with him and take the information and hit the streets today and find the other ones.

MRS SHILLANDER

I see. Okay.

JARRIEL

[VO] Reluctantly, she tells Mike to get back as many of the children as he can, even if it's not all four of them. Mike then returns to the Immigration Office while Vivian keeps her vigil. Hours are passing. Eleven o'clock. Twelve noon comes and goes and there's no sign of Richard Shillander.

MRS SHILLANDER

I'm really hoping that this all really isn't a waste and I hope in the ultimate end that it's - it's going to be fruitful, it's going to be worth it all.

JARRIEL

[VO] More time slips away. The Immigration Office closes at 4:30, only a few hours away. Vivian keeps her eyes riveted to the entrance of the building, hoping against hope. Unbelievably, at 3:00 pm, Richard appears without the children. He's quickly sent to the Immigration officials.

MRS SHILLANDER

What happened? What happened? Oh, my. They told him to go downstairs. Look out.

JARRIEL

[VO] Mike makes a trip to the van to let Vivian know what's going on.

MR INTRAVIA

They're going to require him to tell where exactly he lives. They're going him -

MRS SHILLANDER

Take them?

MR INTRAVIA

- take the Thai Immigration people to the house and show him where they're living so they can verify the address and the children's presence. Now it's a waiting game. We're just going to have to wait and see and hope everything goes well.

JARRIEL

[VO] Within minutes, the Immigration official orders Richard to take him to the cult home on the outskirts of Bangkok. Mike goes along so he can see for himself if the children are really there. But he leaves strict instructions that Vivian and Scott are to remain in the van. At this point in the game, they're winging it. Every step is unpredictable. For the moment, Vivian's fears about seeing her children outweigh the excitement.

MRS SHILLANDER

I guess I'm going to be a little bit afraid that they might reject me. I'm afraid that it's going to be a little bit difficult for me to turn their hearts to their mother.

JARRIEL

[VO] Scott and Vivian wait in the van for what seems like an eternity. The Immigration Office closes and the parking lot begins to empty. They have no idea what's happening. But then, a man with a message arrives.

MR BIONDO

Nine oh three four three.

MESSENGER

Yes.

MR BIONDO

Okay, call that number? Call? Telephone?

MESSENGER

Yes, yes, to Mr [unintelligible].

MR BIONDO

I will call.

JARRIEL

[VO] Moments later, Scott returns with big news.

MR BIONDO

Okay, just relax, okay? Just relax. They've already got the children. They have the children. They're at the Ambassador Hotel. We're on our way, okay? Just relax.

MRS SHILLANDER

You think they only have two?

MR BIONDO

I don't know. They said "the children". You know, I really don't know right now.

JARRIEL

[VO] Vivian and Scott quickly make their way along the Bangkok highways. Little do they know that Mike has corralled the kids into a van and is holding the father at bay with a fistful of US legal papers, not necessarily valid in Thailand. Finally, Vivian and Scott arrive at the Ambassador Hotel. Tense, overwhelmed, Vivian approaches her children, all four of them.

MRS SHILLANDER

Hi, kids.

MR SHILLANDER

They don't even know you.

MRS SHILLANDER

That's okay.

MR SHILLANDER

Who is this, you guys?

MRS SHILLANDER

Momma loves you and you guys don't worry.

JOHN SHILLANDER

You're Vivian.

MRS SHILLANDER

I'm your mother.

JARRIEL

[VO] Their father, Richard, and his common-law wife watch, stunned, as Vivian boldly moves in to take the children.

MRS SHILLANDER

I'm going to take you guys home with me for a while. All right, you go away, Richard.

MR SHILLANDER

Who do you guys love?

MRS SHILLANDER

You go away.

MR SHILLANDER

Who do you guys love?

SHILLANDER CHILDREN

Daddy!

MRS SHILLANDER

They love the Lord, okay?

MR SHILLANDER

Who is this, you guys?

SHILLANDER CHILDREN

Vivian!

MR SHILLANDER

Do we know her?

MRS SHILLANDER

Okay.

SHILLANDER CHILDREN

No!

MR SHILLANDER

Did she leave you four years ago? She left.

SHILLANDER CHILDREN

Yes!

MRS SHILLANDER

You kids don't worry. You trust the Lord.

JOHN

I already am!

APRIL SHILLANDER

Daddy! Daddy!

CALEB SHILLANDER

I want to stay with Daddy!

MR SHILLANDER

Who do you guys want to stay with?

SHILLANDER CHILDREN

Daddy!

JARRIEL

[VO] The children don't want to go. They consider their mother an enemy because she left the cult.

TITO SHILLANDER

I don't want to go back to America. I want to stay in Thailand.

MR SHILLANDER

You kids are packed. Let's go.

MRS SHILLANDER

Where are the papers?

MR SHILLANDER

We'll work this out later. Let's go you guys. Come on. We're staying here.

MRS SHILLANDER

Mike, where are the -

MR SHILLANDER

We're staying here.

MRS SHILLANDER

No, you're not. You kids are not going anywhere.

MR INTRAVIA

No, she has custody of them, okay? Do you have the rest of the papers?

MRS SHILLANDER

You have a copy.

MR SHILLANDER

She has them there.

MRS SHILLANDER

He has to take them. Whatever.

MR INTRAVIA

These are all on him - for him?

MRS SHILLANDER

Well, I have - some of them are -

TITO

I don't want to stay with Mom, Daddy.

APRIL

No one's following you. We'll never be happy with you, 'cause you really didn't want us before and you went away. Please let us stay with Daddy.

TITO

If you love us, if you love us, please let us stay with Daddy.

MR SHILLANDER

Listen -

MRS SHILLANDER

They don't need more time with him at all. He's going to deceive you the same as he's deceived you all along.

TITO

You're lying.

MRS SHILLANDER

We need to go.

MR INTRAVIA

Get in the car. Get in the car. You - you and Scott, get in the back.

JOHN

Daddy, will we see you again?

MR SHILLANDER

Let's say a prayer before you go. Let's just say a prayer. Okay. Let's pray - let's say a prayer. Thank you, Jesus. Thank you, Lord. Thank you, Jesus.

MRS SHILLANDER

We'll pray. I'll pray with them, Richard. You go away. I know the Lord. I will - I'll pray with them. You go away. I will pray with the children. In Jesus' name, Lord, I ask you to take the tears away from these children who are -

MR INTRAVIA

No you're not.

MR SHILLANDER

Why not?

MR INTRAVIA

No, you're not.

MR SHILLANDER

Why not?

MR INTRAVIA

You're not going.

MR SHILLANDER

Why not?

MR INTRAVIA

You're not going with us!

MR SHILLANDER

Why not.

MR INTRAVIA

Go.

MR SHILLANDER

Why not?

MR INTRAVIA

Let's go.

MR SHILLANDER

Why not?

COMMON-LAW WIFE

Why not?

MR INTRAVIA

She has legal custody. Let's go.

COMMON-LAW WIFE

But why? Come on, that is not true. That - she leave him for four year. Come on. That is not fair to do that.

MRS SHILLANDER

You go away!

APRIL

He's been the best daddy in the world. You've been the worst mommy in the world.

MRS SHILLANDER

I was never allowed to be your mother. I was never allowed to be your mother.

JARRIEL

[VO] They head off into Bangkok's rush hour traffic to a hotel where they can hide for the night, not knowing how Richard or the cult might react next. Mike immediately begins to make arrangements to get out of the country as soon as possible. Down the hall, the kids seem surprisingly calm, playing games with two of Vivian's friends who are here to help. For Vivian, who's taking her first delicate steps to rekindle the ties with her children, this is a day beyond belief.

MRS SHILLANDER

I'm just totally shocked and overwhelmed. I had no idea I was going to be sitting with those children tonight. It's a miraculous day.

JARRIEL

[VO] But beneath this harmonious picture, these kids are grappling with some of their deepest emotions.

TITO

I really miss my daddy and -

JARRIEL

[VO] This is Tito.

TITO

I just - I don't want him to feel lonely in Thailand. But I'm glad to see my mommy again. I'm really glad I can spend some time with her again, too.

JARRIEL

[VO] April.

APRIL

Like I'd like to stay in Thailand. That's my - what I want to do, but I won't fight it if I have to go to America.

JARRIEL

[VO] Caleb.

CALEB

I'd rather stay in Thailand.

JARRIEL

[VO] John.

JOHN

Well, I feel as if it was the worst day in my life and I don't exactly appreciate my mom coming back at a time like this.

JARRIEL

[VO] Outside the room, a guard is posted around the clock. As long as the children remain in Bangkok, Mike fears they're vulnerable to being snatched back by The Children of God and their father, Richard.

MR SHILLANDER

And you say am I going to get them back? I think I will. I think the Lord's going to touch somebody's heart and they're going to win someone's heart and He's going to do a miracle.

MRS SHILLANDER

Things are just so - they're really risky, yes, they are. We need to go. We need to get out.

JARRIEL

[VO] Monday, February 1st. After two days of hassling with red tape, they're free to go. If they don't hurry, they'll miss the last flight out for the day.

MR INTRAVIA

We couldn't have strung this whole thing out any farther. It - we're just - we're down to absolutely seconds right now.

JARRIEL

[VO] Tito seems lost in his thoughts, thoughts perhaps of his father and of the sudden transformation his life is going through. That transformation escalates as they take off on Thai Air flight 661 at 3:45 pm As they speed through over 8,000 miles of airspace, people on the other side of the world in Sioux Falls, are preparing for their arrival. [interviewing] What was your first response when you learned Vivian had the children and she'd be coming back?

REV LANDON

Hallelujah! First response. Second response, now the work begins.

JARRIEL

[VO] The work is under way. Volunteer Barbara Kumble is selecting coats for the kids.

BARBARA KUMBLE, VOLUNTEER

This one will fit Tito.

1ST VOLUNTEER

Cream of Mushroom is a good hot dish.

JARRIEL

[VO] Other volunteers shop for groceries they'll take here to Vivian's new home, a four - bedroom, low income town house arranged for by church members. For Yoncha, Vivian's youngest, who's been separated from his mother now for weeks, this is a happy time.

2ND VOLUNTEER

Be sure you bring it tomorrow, won't you, to the airplane.

JARRIEL

[VO] Tuesday, February 2nd. There's a feeling of celebration at the airport.

2ND VOLUNTEER

You see anybody coming yet?

YONCHA

No.

JARRIEL

[VO] As soon as the plane does touch down, Yoncha is glued to the window, waiting for his mother to appear. The crowd watches with him, with intense anticipation.

3RD VOLUNTEER

Look, Yan, look! There's your mom in the green sweater! See her?

REV LANDON

Welcome home! All right! Glad you're back. Hi.

JARRIEL

[VO] Vivian is astounded to be back in Sioux Falls with the children she thought she had lost forever.

MRS SHILLANDER

It just shows me they're my children. They're my children and they're part of my flesh, they're part of me and that's something no one could ever take away from me. JARRIEL

[VO] The children seem to be enjoying all the fuss and festivity swirling about them, but there are moments when their deep bitterness emerges.

JOHN

If your mom comes and takes you away from your dad by force and brings you to a country you don't even like, then what are you supposed to feel like?

JARRIEL

[VO] As she walks into the bitter cold, Vivian is wondering exactly what it will take for her children to make the monumental adjustment that's before them. It's too early to know. Tuesday, February 16th, two weeks after their arrival in Sioux Falls, we visit the Shillander family to see how they're doing. They look like they're having a great time.

APRIL

Okay, we're gonna push. Let's go.

JARRIEL

[VO] But beneath this sparkle, there's serious trouble. The kids still speak adamantly of their wish to return to The Children of God. They refuse to go to school because they say it's against the cult's doctrine and they fight frequently with their mother, most often because she no longer believes in the cult leader, Moses David Berg. [interviewing] When she questions what he says, where does that leave her?

JOHN

That leaves her on the junk pile.

APRIL

Wrong.

JARRIEL

Junk pile?

JOHN

Yeah.

JARRIEL

[VO] These children, devoted to the cult, know all about its practices, including the religious prostitution which, until last year, was advocated by Berg to win new disciples. [interviewing] John, in terms of flirty fishing, do you think it works? Is it a good idea?

JOHN

Yes, there were - I've heard of over about a hundred of our converts were won over with flirty fishing.

APRIL

One of the only ways to get into their heart and to really - to show them the real love of God was to get in bed with them and to really share their hearts with them.

JARRIEL

And April, do you think as you got older you would have been asked to do flirty fishing?

APRIL

Of course not. You volunteer to.

JARRIEL

And would you do it?

APRIL

Of course.

JARRIEL

To bring someone in, to make another believer, it's worth it to you?

APRIL

Yes.

JARRIEL

[VO] Of course, not only did April's religious leader advocate this practice, so does her own father.

INTERVIEWER

Well, what about flirty fishing?

MR SHILLANDER

Yeah, yeah?

INTERVIEWER

Tell me about flirty fishing.

MR SHILLANDER

Well, it's nothing new. It's something that God has been trying to get his love across to men for thousands of years. And we feel that if manufacturers of automobiles and motorcycles can use sex as advertising, then why can't God use sex? Well, what's wrong with sex?

JARRIEL

[VO] 20/20 also asked Richard about "My Little Fish". That's the chapter in the cult publication which shows children in sexual poses with each other and with adults.

MR SHILLANDER

It's just a piece of educational material and we've learned many things through the years of child care, taking care of children. It's actually fun to watch a child, in this case, experience life.

JARRIEL

[VO] Dr Margaret Singer is a psychologist and cult expert. [interviewing] How does that strike you as a statement from a father?

DR MARGARET SINGER, PSYCHOLOGIST

What he was saying, "experience life," shows a mother orally copulating a little boy and that's his opinion about what would usually in the United States be regarded as sexual abuse of a child.

JARRIEL

[VO] Richard says there's never been any sexual abuse of children in his home.

MR SHILLANDER

It's something that we forbid in our homes. It's something that has never been practiced nor advocated. And I stand here before you telling the truth.

JARRIEL

The children do say they've never had any sexual experiences with adults or other children, but they become extremely agitated when we ask them about Moses David Berg's teachings on sex. [interviewing] "My Little Fish". Now, your father described that as a routine publication. That entails -

APRIL

Who had -

JARRIEL

- graphic sex.

JOHN

Who had this?

CALEB

They're not having sex. They're just kissing and hugging in bed. That's not sex.

JARRIEL

[VO] April is very upset that 20/20 has obtained a copy of "My Little Fish". Ex - members tell us the cult leaders say it should be kept secret.

APRIL

If you show it to other people, they don't understand. That stuff's not supposed to be publicized. So many people hate - so many people think sex is wrong. So many people hate us but we just telling them the truth. We're just telling them it's not wrong. We're just telling them that there's nothing wrong with it and here comes this publicizer showing them to everybody, making everybody think it's wrong.

JARRIEL

This is printed and circulated, though, April.

APRIL

Well, why do you need it?

JARRIEL

It's printed and circulated.

APRIL

You don't need it.

JARRIEL

It's not a private doc - it's printed and widely circulated around the world.

APRIL

But you're not supposed to have it.

JARRIEL

[VO] What exactly will it take for the children to recover from a lifetime of cult indoctrination? Psychologists 20/20 talked to say these kids urgently need to be deprogrammed and if they can get the help they need, they can make a good adjustment. But deprogramming will cost a lot of money, money which Vivian does not have but hopes to one day get. Just a few weeks ago, we visited the family again and found the kids have made some adjustments. They've made new friends and learned to play baseball. All four of them did start school back in March but only three of them completed the year. John dropped out after two weeks because he felt the school would destroy him. All of the kids, nearly six months after arriving in Sioux Falls, say they continue to believe in the teachings of Moses David Berg and The Children of God and they want very much to return to Thailand and to their father. So, for now, it's clear that the ordeal is still not over. And yet, Vivian tells us she feels good these days.

MRS SHILLANDER

Before I had the children, I really had a ache in my heart. Well, I just don't have that ache anymore. I have a contentment there, I mean, I'm happy. Uh, how do you explain it? You've been defeated in life. Something has taken you and controlled you and you've overcome that.

DOWNS

Tom, how long will it take for these children to get over this indoctrination of The Children of God?

JARRIEL

Well, Hugh, we have to remember these kids were born into this cult. This is all they had ever known. Now, for adults that go into it, it takes roughly two years and that's with good deprogramming. These youngsters don't have any real effective deprogramming efforts under way so it's going to take a long time and the mother's going to have to have the resources to get professional help.

DOWNS

The oldest boy seems to be - have the most difficulty. I wonder if he can avoid real depression.

JARRIEL

They seem to genuinely want to return to their father in Thailand at this point, but it could change. Also, they have terrific support within the community. The church is with them. Senator Larry Pressler, their senator, has been very influential in trying to keep them on the right track.

DOWNS

Well, maybe this'll come out okay. Thank you, Tom.