Montel Williams: Escaping A Cult

Escaping A Cult

Montel Williams/2007-02-06

Following is a transcript of the video shown on the right.
Download: Montel Williams: Escaping A Cult (40:24, 127MB)

MONTEL WILLIAMS

Welcome, and thank you so much for joining us today. You know, today’s show is a little different and that’s because it is just that. It’s provocative. It’s disturbing, and the face of this little girl right here changed the entire direction of the show. And you’re not gonna know why unless you stay tuned. So stay tuned. If you have small children at home, make sure they stay in the room, ‘cause this is something you definitely wanna talk to them about.

[Cheers and applause]

MONTEL WILLIAMS

Welcome and thank you so much for joining us today. You know, last year, we met a former member of a religious cult known as “The Family”. And after that guest shared their heartbreaking story on this show, I promised to help any other ex-members of this group who wanted to come forward. And today, I’m gonna honor that promise. Now, the allegations that were made against the founding members of the cult are appalling. I want you to take a look at this.

[Begin video clip from Cult Killer: The Rick Rodriguez Story]

MONTEL WILLIAMS

In January 2005, the video Ricky Rodriguez made before committing suicide made national headlines and shed light on one of the most horrific cults in history. Ricky wanted revenge and was planning to kill his mother.

RICKY RODRIGUEZ

The goal is to bring down those sick (censored by network) Mama and Peter. How can you do that to kids? How can you do that to kids and sleep at night?

[Graphics: Ricky was born and raised in “The Family.” He and other children say they suffered years of abuse.]

RICKY RODRIGUEZ

My mom's gonna pay for that. She's gonna pay dearly, one way or another. You know, anger does not begin--does not begin to describe how I feel about these people and what they've done.

DAVID BERG

I practice what I preach, and I preach sex, boys and girls. Hallelujah.

[Graphics: Courtesy of Wag TV/TVF International]

JULIET STEVENSON (NARRATOR)

To the outside world, “The Family” was a missionary organization spreading their word from Mexico City to Manila, but behind the closed doors of their communes, free love was their theology.

FEMALE ONE, MEMBER OF THE FAMILY

We love you.

MALE, MEMBER OF THE FAMILY

Love you.

JULIET STEVENSON (NARRATOR)

Armed with camcorders, far-flung communes often recorded their exploits, sending David Berg messages of love.

FEMALE ONE, MEMBER OF THE FAMILY

We love you.

MONTEL WILLIAMS

Ricky was just one of many young children who say they experienced horrific abuse while being raised in the cult. There were also hundreds of other children who may have been subjected to physical, emotional and sexual abuse.

DAVIDA

I remember just the gripping terror that I used to get in my gut as a little girl. Just that horrible, horrible feeling of, please don't do this to me again.

JULIET STEVENSON (NARRATOR)

Not only were Rick and Davida encouraged to have sexual interaction, they also shared David Berg's bed.

AMY

I would watch adults having sexual intercourse and performing sexual activities. It was all around us. We couldn't escape it.

CARYN

They had developed certain methods to break us down. It included isolation. I can remember being locked in a closet for about a week. It also included food deprivation. They wouldn't let you have a certain amount of food. And then there would be beatings as well.

DAVIDA

We were so abused, physically, mentally and sexually that to this day, it's still a part of my everyday life.

[End video clip]

MONTEL WILLIAMS

Please welcome Caryn back to the show. You know, first off, after you aired--you were on our show a year ago.

[Applause]

CARYN

Right.

MONTEL WILLIAMS

And after that show aired, talk a little bit about the outpouring of people who tried to contact you to say, my story's the same. What happened? Talk about that for a minute.

CARYN

Well, I think that sometimes, the only thing that keeps us living in pain with these kind of traumatic childhood experiences is silence. And after going on your show and, you know, previously being very private about it, it kind of opened a whole new door for me. And it was almost kind of like an epiphany where I realized for the first time that a lot of the shame and the guilt and the anger and all of those things that are associated with recovering from, you know, childhood sexual abuse wasn't my fault.

MONTEL WILLIAMS

Stop for a second. Let's take people back. Refresh everybody's memory as to what took place. What happened in your life growing up in “The Family.”

CARYN

Well, this organization, unlike most, you know, religious organizations or cults, has incorporated from the very beginning sexual practices into its religious doctrine.

MONTEL WILLIAMS

You heard its founder saying, "I preach sex, boy."

CARYN

Along with learning how--you know, the gospel, they would incorporate sexual practice with religious belief and religious practices. But then they went a step further in that when their members--this organization was formed around the time of the hippie movement and the Vietnam War. And when those members started marrying and having children, like myself and others, they began to incorporate the children into those sexual practices.

MONTEL WILLIAMS

Your parents were part of this organization.

CARYN

Correct.

MONTEL WILLIAMS

From the beginning.

CARYN

Yes.

MONTEL WILLIAMS

You're born. How old were you when the first--again, explain to them what takes place or what happened. How old were you when the first untoward thing happened towards you?

CARYN

One of my first memories in this organization took place in a basement. I had to have been younger than 5 years old. I was naked. I was being passed back and forth between two men, and when I screamed for my mother or cried for her, they would beat me. I recall later as I got older we were taken out of school in the third grade. We were living in a bus, and we were homeless. And we were--the only way that we had any form of, like, support or money was my younger siblings and I were put out on the streets to solicit donations, to tell people we were missionaries and doing mission work. For food, we were sent into restaurants and asked to ask for meals. This was considered living by faith. As I got older, from about 10 to 16, I can recall, you know, being locked in closets for lack of faith and being deprived food.

MONTEL WILLIAMS

By speaking out a year ago, how has this changed your life?

CARYN

I think that the healing process is one that takes place over time. Time is an incredible healer. Therapy helps to jumpstart that healing, and speaking out where it's no longer something that you have to be personally ashamed of. I think before I came on your show, I really considered myself a victim, and I was quiet about what I’d gone through. And after I went on your show, I had a client come into my office who otherwise would have never brought it up, and she confided in me that she had been molested as a child herself. And we had a long conversation about that. And for the first time in a long time, or ever for me, I started to think of myself as a survivor and not just a victim.

MONTEL WILLIAMS

You're an attorney?

CARYN

That's right.

MONTEL WILLIAMS

You are now working yourself to try to bring a class action lawsuit against this organization, are you not?

CARYN

Yes.

MONTEL WILLIAMS

I got to take a break. Before we go to break, I want you to talk about the two young ladies that we're gonna meet on the show today.

CARYN

Okay.

MONTEL WILLIAMS

Talk a little bit about them.

CARYN

Like I said, they grew up in the founder's home, the religious leader's home. And their lives and their childhoods were published in books, and they were held up as a model that we were all aspired to be like.

MONTEL WILLIAMS

Okay, talk about this. Their lives were published in a book. The mother published in a book, how do I go about raping a 6, 7, 8, 9, 10-year-old boy or girl?

CARYN

Two and three.

MONTEL WILLIAMS

Two and three. How do you go about--how do--are you hearing me? How do you rape a child, and an explanation for it in a book. And you of course…

CARYN

A religious justification, that this is God's love.

MONTEL WILLIAMS

And you were forced to read this.

CARYN

Our parents read it, and they were meant to implement it with us.

MONTEL WILLIAMS

Well, I’m gonna take a little break. When we come back, we have an exclusive interview with members of “The Family” who claim that they were abused from the youngest age as possible by the prophet himself. I’ll take a break. We'll be back right after this.

[commercial break]

MONTEL WILLIAMS

Well, my next guest was considered a princess amongst the cult. She was one of the most highly revered children and claims that she also suffered some of the worst abuse. I want you to take a look at this.

[Begin video clip]

DAVIDA

The first time that I remember being sexually abused, I was 5 years old. As a child, I was repeatedly, frequently sexually abused. As children, we were considered to be sexual property. We were required to perform oral sex. The consequences for not having sex with adults was severe. Beatings--always beatings. Isolation. Everything that was evil and vile and perverted was encouraged and done in the name of Jesus. Orgies were frequent, regular occurrences, and the children were always, always required to participate. I can always remember having this gripping terror in my gut whenever I had these encounters, these sexual encounters. It was just--it was mortifying. It was devastating, and before I ever even knew it was wrong. I remember being forced as a little kid to drink wine, and I was told that was to help loosen us up in order to prepare us for what they called love up time. We would be dragged out of our beds in the middle of the night and forced to have sex. I remember I would be screaming and terrified and crying. And we were so abused physically, mentally and sexually that to this day, of course, it's just--it's still a part of my everyday life, and it just hasn't gone away.

[End video clip]

MONTEL WILLIAMS

Please welcome Davida to the show. Welcome her. You look back at--you live here in New York now.

[Applause]

DAVIDA

Yes.

MONTEL WILLIAMS

You look back at your life now, and if you had to sum it up for everybody, what would you say your life has been?

DAVIDA

Wow. It was traumatizing.

MONTEL WILLIAMS

Traumatizing?

DAVIDA

Traumatizing.

MONTEL WILLIAMS

You were one of the poster children.

DAVIDA

Yes.

MONTEL WILLIAMS

You were the star child, the princess. You lived with--in David Berg's home.

DAVIDA

Yes.

MONTEL WILLIAMS

Correct?

DAVIDA

Yes.

MONTEL WILLIAMS

And why were you selected to live in his home?

DAVIDA

Well, when David Berg initially founded the group back in the hippie days, in the '60s, my mother, who at the time was a very young hippie in her 19, 20, around there. And my father, too, were some of the first members of the group to join. And from that point on, my mother became part of the elite unit that made up the group and his immediate staff members.

MONTEL WILLIAMS

The core of “The Family.”

DAVIDA

The core of the family, right. And she ended up being one of the main writers and publicists, as well as the legal guardian of David Berg's son.

MONTEL WILLIAMS

But let's talk a little bit about what was going on here. David Berg, being the head of the church, requires all members of the church to give him 10%.

DAVIDA

Yes.

MONTEL WILLIAMS

So all the members sent him 10%. So you and your mother and this immediate core is living the life of a superstar.

DAVIDA

Luxury. Oh, yes, yes, yes.

MONTEL WILLIAMS

Mansions.

DAVIDA

Absolutely. Because we lived in not only confinement, but secluded like--secluded environment, secluded estates and compounds and communities, which were completely isolated from the rest of “The Family.” The rest of the members of “The Family” have no idea exactly how David Berg is living. The only way that they know how he is living and what he is like and what his environment is, is from the publications or his letters that he distributed and published.

MONTEL WILLIAMS

And in these letters, also letters from your mother…

DAVIDA

Yes.

MONTEL WILLIAMS

…were the doctrines and manuals…

DAVIDA

Yes.

MONTEL WILLIAMS

…on how to get children to participate in the sexual activities of this cult.

DAVIDA

Right. It was just--it was just a manual. It was like--it was a handbook, so to speak. And this is how we raise our children, everybody…

MONTEL WILLIAMS

But this is all written about what they did to you.

DAVIDA

Yes. Mm-hmm. Everybody was expected to follow the guidelines. It was like an example. This is how you should raise your children. This is how we raise ours, and this is the ultimate of the ultimate standard.

MONTEL WILLIAMS

Davida, if you stop for a second--stop for a second and think back on one of those pages that you flipped, and there's a thing in here about how to have sex with a 3-year-old, 4-year-old child. They're talking about you.

Davida

They actually were specifically mentioning--my mother at the time wrote volumes and volumes called the Davidito series, and how she raised Rick Rodriguez, who was David Berg's son, as young as age two, yes. But there were many, many examples in there of all about the sexual interaction that we were not only required, but it was enforced. It was the sexual interaction was enforced between adults and children, and how that was all done in a loving and in a great spirit and a loving way, because this was a religion based around the love of Jesus and love for each other and God.

MONTEL WILLIAMS

Let me take a little break. When we come back, Davida's gonna explain how the abuse went from bad to worse. We'll take a break. We'll be back right after this.

[commercial break]

MONTEL WILLIAMS

We're talking today about life inside the cult. And you live in houses people never got to see, did they?

DAVIDA

See, this is the thing. We lived in these compounds, these isolated compounds. Mostly, like, in the middle of--you know, not in suburban areas, but like far, far away from, you know, any urban…

MONTEL WILLIAMS

In the middle of nowhere.

DAVIDA

Pretty much, in the mountains. And like, for this very reason, we spent most of our lives as children in the far, far east, in Europe.

MONTEL WILLIAMS

How many countries total did you live in from the age 3 to 14?

DAVIDA

Close to, like, 50, 60.

MONTEL WILLIAMS

Fifty, 60, constantly on the run.

DAVIDA

Relocating. But at the time that I was growing up in the immediate unit with David Berg and his immediate staff members, which included my mother and probably 50 to 100 members that relocated with David Berg and his community every six months to a year. The reason why he had this--he was constantly relocating was because once the authorities caught on to the fact that there was a well-known pedophile, cult leader who also encouraged and other things…

MONTEL WILLIAMS

Promoted.

DAVIDA

Promoted, like, prostitution and pedophilia, and of course, tax evasions and money laundering, all that sort of thing. Once the authorities caught on, that's why we immediately, we'd have to regroup and relocate. So for this very reason, we kept, like gypsies, traveling from one country to the next to avoid authorities.

MONTEL WILLIAMS

How old were you the first time you were required to participate in this love up time?

DAVIDA

I guess my earliest must have been around five, as far as I remember. It could have been younger, but those were my earliest memories.

MONTEL WILLIAMS

At age 5, what were you required to do?

DAVIDA

Well, I was required to have sexual interaction with adult members. For instance, if it was, how do you say, initiated, or if it was--what's a good word?

CARYN

Planned.

DAVIDA

Planned. Yes, there were schedules and everything, whether it was orgies or one-on-one.

MONTEL WILLIAMS

Wait, wait, wait, slow down. You mean to tell me at 5:00, Davida--on Thursday, Davida is scheduled to go have sex with the prophet, at age five?

DAVIDA

Yeah, I mean--put it this way, whenever an adult would whim it, or whenever it was their whim. I’m not sure if that's the right word to use. Whenever they felt inspired to have a sexual interaction with a child at some point, whether it was myself or my brother. And I’ve said he was my brother, because we were brought up as brother and sister up until our earliest teenage years. It was a requirement, and we were just expected to comply. We were expected to obey willingly and have a great attitude about it. So (unintelligible) that it was scheduled.

MONTEL WILLIAMS

And if you didn't, what will happen?

DAVIDA

Oh, there were always disciplinary measures taken.

MONTEL WILLIAMS

What happened, Caryn?

CARYN

It would get horrible. They would accuse you of demonic possession, lack of faith.

DAVIDA

Oh, yeah.

CARYN

Lack of faith. Tie you to beds, beat you.

DAVIDA

This was very common amongst our generation, but the second generation, it didn't happen because they had to stop it only because of negative publicity and because of pressure from the outside.

MONTEL WILLIAMS

But I’ve gotta say right now, I don’t care if they stopped it…

CARYN

Pressure from the media stopped some of it.

MONTEL WILLIAMS

I don't care if they stopped it or not eight years ago, nine years ago.

DAVIDA

But the thing is, the rest of “The Family” has no idea that this is going on. And that's why they think that we are liars. That's why we are here to come out today and tell people the truth, because I want everyone in “The Family” to know this is the foundation, okay? The people that founded this group, this is what they promoted. This is what…

MONTEL WILLIAMS

And whether or not they've done it in the last seven or eight years, they are still guilty of child molestation…

DAVIDA

Yes, and they are still responsible for it.

MONTEL WILLIAMS

…and any organization that promoted, sponsored, sent out documents about it should all go to jail.

DAVIDA

Absolutely.

[Applause]

MONTEL WILLIAMS

Simple. Let me take a break. When we come back, we're gonna meet one of the prophet's chosen girls. Because again, you were special. You are the princess, but the prophet--this man could reach out at any point in time and say, hmm, your daughter, she's really attractive. You know what? You're gonna leave your daughter with us.

DAVIDA

Yes.

MONTEL WILLIAMS

I’m gonna take care of her. You'll go on to Japan and help do some work in the group there, okay? Oh, yeah, you will. We'll be back right after this.

[commercial break]

MONTEL WILLIAMS

You know, in trying to see if I can get this across to you and let you know that there are organizations that exist in this country that, as unbelievable as it will sound, that actually publish documents on how to molest children, how it’s appropriate to have children participate in everything from orgies to--to theatrical presentations. They even, at one point in time, had these young ladies, young girls as young as four, five and six put together videos of them stripping so that they could send that video to the founder of the organization, Berg. Let me see--because this was part of--these people actually made this the fabric of their organization. They would take little girls, put them in sexually explicit clothing.

DAVIDA

It was required.

MONTEL WILLIAMS

It was required. And you had to do it--did you know what you were doing at age five?

MALE, AUDIENCE MEMBER

We're gonna have to leave.

MONTEL WILLIAMS Hold on a second. Hold on a second. Sir.

MALE, AUDIENCE MEMBER

I don't know what's on the video.

MONTEL WILLIAMS There's nothing on the video that would not be appropriate for anybody to see.

MALE, AUDIENCE MEMBER

Well, we, we don't know that.

MONTEL WILLIAMS

Why don't you sit down and take a look at it?

MALE, AUDIENCE MEMBER

Dwight Morrow High School let’s go. We’re sorry. We're sorry. We have a Board of Education that asked us specifically...

MONTEL WILLIAMS

Fine, do your thing. Do your thing. I have not had one school in America in 17 years complain about any topic that we've done here or anything that I’ve ever done on the show. It's never been censored, but that's fine. Do your thing. Do what you got to do. Do what you got to do.

MALE, AUDIENCE MEMBER

I’m sorry.

MONTEL WILLIAMS

Do what you got to do. Now, I know you can't figure out what just happened here on the show, and let me explain it to you. Because we didn't have audio on some of our members of our studio audience. But I had a group of high school students here with some teachers who were here. They came to the show to watch a taping of the show. And just when we start talking about an issue, and we start talking about the depth of the depravity that was going on with children, this obviously infuriated this counselor who was here and responsible for kids and wanted to take them out of the room. But guys, this is the reason why this kind of garbage continues in America.

[Applause]

MONTEL WILLIAMS

I apologize. You came here to share your story, to validate it in the fact that you were abused and we have turned a eye against it and won’t even bother looking at it.

DAVIDA

Yeah.

MONTEL WILLIAMS

And yet again, we wanna push it under a rug again. How many kids go to school every day that are sexually abused and abused at home, and can't find anybody to talk to?

DAVIDA

Exactly.

MONTEL WILLIAMS

I rest my case. I wanna continue to talk about this because it's important that that young lady that's sitting at home right now that just got embarrassed and won't tell her father or her mother about the person down the street that's abusing them because they won't think somebody believes them...

DAVIDA

Yeah.

MONTEL WILLIAMS

...they need to have a--they need to understand that they have a right and they should speak out.

DAVIDA

Yeah.

MONTEL WILLIAMS

I was talking about the tape. I wanna show you guys this tape. Of course, I’m gonna edit it down so it won't be abusive to people at home. Take a look at this. This is what they had these little girls do.

[Begin video clip]

AMY

As a young child, I was trained and groomed to be sexually active. I was coerced and introduced to perform sexual acts with adult males in the home. When I was 8 years old, this was the first time that I performed a striptease video where I took off all my clothes and danced in front of the camera for David Berg. At the end of the dance, we were supposed to raise our hands, completely naked and with our hands raised to God, called glorify God in the dance. Nudity was encouraged. Topless. We didn't wear anything on the top, and we wore very slight sarongs and undergarments. I would find myself being in situations where I would watch adults having sexual intercourse and performing sexual activities. It was all around us. We couldn't escape it. It was in our own rooms, and it made me feel--it made me feel sick. It made me feel bad inside to be treated this way.

MONTEL WILLIAMS

Please welcome Amy to the show. How old were you--how old were you in that video? Do you remember?

[Applause]

AMY

Eight.

MONTEL WILLIAMS

I--you know, I got, I got an 11-year-old daughter at home, 13-year-old son, 17-year-old daughter, 23-year-old daughter at home. I, I would be the first person to go with a baseball bat after somebody if I found out you were making my child take their clothes off and dance for them. Would they...

AMY

I have a 10-year-old daughter, so...

MONTEL WILLIAMS

And your 10-year-old daughter is still in this cult, is she not?

AMY

Well, it's complicated.

MONTEL WILLIAMS

Okay.

AMY

She's with her father, who's in an active missionary community, and they're not doing that because I have access to that community whenever I want. That's the only reason I allow the relationship to go on this way. But the difficulty that we face today is that these things happened to people like Davida and my--you know, Caryn. We were the first generation. We were abused--very, very severely abused. There are some people that have been abused that aren't today because they've committed suicide.

MONTEL WILLIAMS

How old were you when Berg married you?

AMY

Thirteen.

MONTEL WILLIAMS

How old were you when Berg married you?

DAVIDA

Five.

MONTEL WILLIAMS

Five! Let me take a break. We'll be back right after this.

[commercial break]

MONTEL WILLIAMS

You know, we contacted the organization called “The Family”, and we tried to get a comment from them or a statement from them, and this is their legal statement. They said, during a transitional stage of our movement, from 1978 until 1986, there were cases when some minors were subject to sexually inappropriate advances. This was corrected officially in 1986 when any contact between an adult and a minor was declared an excommunicatable offense.

DAVIDA

Mm-hmm.

MONTEL WILLIAMS

However, after almost 700 investigations, there have been no proven cases of abuse. That's the statement from the members of--the spokesperson for “The Family”. You're shaking your head, Caryn.

CARYN

The sexual abuse that I endured happened as late as 1991, and it would have continued had I not runaway. And what's most important to remember is, even if it did stop in 1986, which is not the case for me personally and some of my own siblings, it doesn't matter. The harm is already done to hundreds of children. And even if they're not still abusing children, somebody needs to answer for what we went through.

DAVIDA

Absolutely.

MONTEL WILLIAMS

No question. I mean, and I'm not, I’m not picking on any individual religion, but we do know and recognize right now here in the United States of America and all over the world, they are reaching back 20 and 30 years now and prosecuting some members of the Catholic Church and other churches for inappropriate behavior with children. So therefore, what makes this any different? And, and when--with you, again, you married him. He was like your--were you the unofficial bride, wife? Are you still married to him today?

AMY

He married, he married several of us in mock marriages, which weren't legal.

MONTEL WILLIAMS

Okay.

DAVIDA

Yeah, yeah.

AMY

But then again, they didn't do anything legally. Everything was done illegally.

DAVIDA

Yeah.

AMY

They were in secluded communities…

DAVIDA

Yeah.

DAVIDA

...that we weren't even allowed to leave because of their security, which meant they had something to hide. Let me explain one thing to you, and this is very important, is that from the onset of our training as children, we were always taught that the outside world, that policemen, that authority, government were all wrong, and that we were the only ones doing God's will.

DAVIDA

Yes.

MONTEL WILLIAMS

Which means molesting children is part of God's will.

AMY

Which meant, which meant...

DAVIDA

Yes.

AMY

Which meant, we were never, we never shown television. We were never told our rights. We didn't even know that there were policemen we could go out and talk to.

MONTEL WILLIAMS

How did--why were you smart enough to get out? Let's find out how you got out. We'll take a break. We'll be back right after this.

[commercial break]

DAVIDA

Well, for the most part of--for the people in the family, they are so busy--with their 12 kids out on the hills, trying to do good missionary and humanitarian work. They don't have time to molest their kids. They don't believe in that. They--if they knew how we were so seriously abused in every way, shape and form as kids, if they knew the truth about the…

AMY

If they'd believed it.

DAVIDA

...the foundation of the cult and the leaders who, who instigated this whole thing, there wouldn't be a Family. But for the most part, “The Family” is very deceived, and they have no idea this happened.

MONTEL WILLIAMS

Why don't you tell them the truth about what they've said to you, religiously, what will happen to you if you go against “The Family”? You're gonna burn in, in eternal damnation forever and day.

AMY

Okay. It's a good point.

[light laughter]

AMY

Okay. Religiously speaking, the, the religion--religious ideology behind the way we were raised is that anyone who leaves this group is considered a backslider in the eyes of God.

DAVIDA

Turning their backs on God, yeah.

AMY

They're turning their back on God himself. And to turn your back on the leadership and to speak out against the leadership, you basically are opening yourself up to all kinds of horrible things happening, God's judgment, you're gonna commit suicide, you're gonna have mental breakdowns, you're gonna lose everyone you love in your life. Nothing's gonna work out.

MONTEL WILLIAMS

And, and I should...

AMY You're not gonna have a good job. I mean, all, all this stuff. You can't...

MONTEL WILLIAMS

And let's back up. They don't say this the day you walk in and say, can I resign? They start telling you this when you're 3 years old...

AMY

Yep.

DAVIDA

Yeah.

AMY

Exactly.

MONTEL WILLIAMS

Four years old, 5 years old. Lightning bolt's gonna hit you in the head. You know, God's gonna come down and do something to you personally. And I guess being told to a child, you would buy this. And how did you get out?

AMY

And we still have that probably to some extent, you know.

MONTEL WILLIAMS

How did you finally get out?

DAVIDA

It came to the point where I had nowhere to go. I have...

CARYN

You had no education.

DAVIDA

No education. I have my basic GED high school education, but like, where am I gonna go get a job? So I ended up leaving when I was 20, 'cause I finally went as an exchange student to Russia.

MONTEL WILLIAMS

And now you're here in New York.

DAVIDA

Yes, mm-hmm.

MONTEL WILLIAMS And I'm--and you know what? I don't say this as an aspersion. I don't say this to cut, but what do you do now?

DAVIDA

Right now, I'm a full-time Web model.

MONTEL WILLIAMS

Okay. And is that part of this entire idea that there's only one aspect of you that we can promote?

DAVIDA

You know what? It's a part of me that I am--you know, that I am very comfortable with, and I am confident in, and it's, it's, it's actually an aspiration, you know, and it's a challenge for me, and I really, really--I'm good at it, and I'm enjoying it. And I'm--and I'm challenged with it. But it...

MONTEL WILLIAMS

How often do you stop for a second and deal with the demons?

DAVIDA

Oh, all the time. All the time. All the time. But it's, it's making me stronger, and being around good people like Amy, who has also come through it, like, we're here. And finally, the best way to deal with it is finally having you guys hear our story.

MONTEL WILLIAMS

Let me take a break, and I'll get your story when we come back. We'll be back right after this.

[commercial break]

MONTEL WILLIAMS

Amy, how did you get out?

AMY

It was very difficult. The death of my father was the catalyst in that I decided at that point that no matter what it took, I was gonna leave. Because I already didn't believe in the doctrine. I already had questions about what happened to me. And I started realizing that I had--you know, female rights. That I wasn't supposed to just be, you know, prey for whatever men, you know, want.

MONTEL WILLIAMS

An object.

AMY

And I started waking up. And my relationship wasn't healthy with my husband. I was being kind of put down, and I just sort of went, hey, you know, am I gonna stay here? Regardless of the fact of these kids, and I'm married, and I can't drive, and I don't have a bank account. I don't have any education. Am I gonna just stay here and just live the—out my--the days of my life miserable and under this kind of bondage?

MONTEL WILLIAMS

But now you have to live out the days of your life with your child back in a compound, back in an organization.

AMY

Well, I'm working towards that, and I have been working towards that. I got them out of Brazil. I went and got a job, you know, minimum wage. I raised money for a year. I knew I couldn't do it if I had the kids with me, so I left Brazil. I came to the United States. I got a small job. I made money for a year to buy their tickets to get them back. I went back, and I begged my husband, please move back to the United States. Even though we're not together, come to the United States so that I can have at least all of us here on common ground where we are American citizens, and we have a chance.

MONTEL WILLIAMS

Please welcome to the show Bob and Judy Pardon to the show. Welcome them. Thank you guys for being here.

[applause]

'BOB PARDON, EXECUTIVE DIRECTOR, MEADOW HAVEN TREATMENT CENTER

Thank you.

MONTEL WILLIAMS

Talk a little bit about the work that you do. Talk about the work that you do.

BOB PARDON

Well, we operate the only long-term transitional facility in the world for individuals like these very brave women who have come out of “The Family”. It's designed to help individuals who have come out of groups that are normally known as cults to transition back into society and to deal with the issues that are so very, very difficult, as you've heard them describe, that they have to deal with.

MONTEL WILLIAMS And you've come here today to offer what, (unintelligible) ?

BOB PARDON

We would like to offer to them the opportunity to come to Meadow Haven to use the facilities and the program, if they would like, and to allow us to be able to help them to deal with the trauma and the difficulties that they have to face that really nobody understands unless they have been there. What they have described is just the tip of the iceberg.

MONTEL WILLIAMS

And I'm--and I'm gonna--gonna say something. I don't wanna make you both--you're gonna probably get angry at me if I say this, but I'm gonna tell you something. For the first time in your life, you probably have an opportunity to stop the demons, to stop some of this--to stop some of this for yourself and figure out how to move forward, especially with the help of these people. 'Cause I'm gonna tell you, you said it. You just said--I asked you what are you doing. You're living in New York. You are a Web model, okay? Well, a Web--I'm not putting it down, but girlfriend, you do know this came out of something else. You were taking your clothes off as a child for adults, and now you're taking your clothes off as an adult for adults.

DAVIDA

Mm-hmm.

MONTEL WILLIAMS

And that's not a put-down. It's not, but--you have to understand that that's not you. Have you ever had an opportunity for one second to stop and think about who Davida is without the cult?

DAVIDA

Yeah.

MONTEL WILLIAMS

When?

DAVIDA

Well, I mean, no. But it's, it's a reality, yeah.

MONTEL WILLIAMS

I say why--you have not.

DAVIDA

Absolutely.

MONTEL WILLIAMS

You've not stopped one day of your life and thought about who you are without a cult.

DAVIDA

Let me tell you something else. I'm--this is amazing hearing this from you because not only, like--we've already kind of established ourselves in society right now, but, like, there are so many kids that are living that...

MONTEL WILLIAMS

No. You--wait. Stop. You've established yourself as a person who has run away from a cult…

DAVIDA

Yes, yes.

MONTEL WILLIAMS

...and is still running away right now from life.

DAVIDA Sure.

MONTEL WILLIAMS

I'm gonna hide. I'm not gonna talk about it. Yeah, I got a chance to go on the Montel Williams Show and tell everybody in the world what happened, but now I'm gonna go back to hiding. And there's no hiding, especially for you.

DAVIDA

Yeah.

MONTEL WILLIAMS

Where are you gonna hide?

CARYN I'm not hiding.

MONTEL WILLIAMS You got three kids who are, who are begging right now. Deep down inside, I will guarantee you, if they're not with mom, they wanna see mom, they're begging to figure out how to get mom back in their life. But they need the whole mom.

AMY

Trust me, if I had an avenue and whatever way I find, I will do it.

MONTEL WILLIAMS

Well, guess what? Maybe we have some help.

DAVIDA That'd be great, 'cause there's so many kids that are living, too, that are, are committing suicide because they have no hope...

MONTEL WILLIAMS

All right. Davida, stop.

DAVIDA

...you know. And they need that help. And thank you.

MONTEL WILLIAMS

Davida, Davida. Davida, listen to you. Listen to you. You--you're becoming like an ad yourself for the cult. I'll tell you why. Because you're talking about all the other kids. You're talking about everybody else, everybody and their mother. Everybody else got a problem, but Davida. You're not doing great. You're not. It's okay to admit that.

DAVIDA

Yeah.

MONTEL WILLIAMS

You know, let's get some--well, it's not a put-down. It's not hurting you. I know you worked hard to be strong enough to get here.

DAVIDA

Yeah.

MONTEL WILLIAMS

There's no question, girlfriend. You worked hard enough to be strong enough to look somebody else in the face.

DAVIDA

Yeah.

MONTEL WILLIAMS

Give it--and I'm telling ya.

[Applause]

MONTEL WILLIAMS, HOSt

So now, just be strong enough to admit, I need some help, Montel, now. I've gotten to this point. Maybe they can help you get to the next point.

DAVIDA

That'd be great.

MONTEL WILLIAMS

And the next--I'm sorry, you know. When I hear about a child who was molested as a child and grows up to take their clothes off and to do things that's nothing more than another additional molestation, Davida, the child's still getting molested right now.

DAVIDA

Yeah.

MONTEL WILLIAMS

Okay? So why don't you set the child free?

DAVIDA

Yeah. I appreciate the opportunity. Thanks so much.

MONTEL WILLIAMS

Don't say "I appreciate the opportunity." Say, "I'm going." Take a break. We'll be back right after this.

[commercial break]

MONTEL WILLIAMS

Bob and Judy, I'm sorry I didn't have a lot more time, and I want more time for you guys. But maybe--just help me explain to these two ladies that this is not insurmountable.

BOB PARDON

No, you see the, you see the issue--they're incredibly brave coming on the show here at this time, and they've done a tremendous job in just being able to survive. Coming out of a group like “The Family” literally shreds an individual's sense of self-esteem. And what ends up happening, particularly when they have been so abused in the way that they have been as children, is they're suffering from what is called complex post-traumatic stress disorder in a massive way. This does not go away. It goes underground. And what ends up happening is the whole of their lives now is in survival mode. They do everything that they can to try to just survive each day. And so their lives are spent in trying to keep the dogs at bay.

DAVIDA

Yeah.

BOB PARDON

Places I can't go, things I can't think about, people I can't talk to, things I can't do. So their lives are constricted on a massive level. And so they try to do everything they can just to survive. It doesn't have to be like that. But it takes an awful lot to try and work through it. It's the hardest thing they would ever have to face, but they can do it.

MONTEL WILLIAMS

You have had a tremendous amount of success through your home.

BOB PARDON

Yeah, we have. We've helped a lot of--we worked with a lot of sexual abuse, women who have been sexually abused, who have been born and raised. Because what ends up happening is as children, when you go through this kind of abuse, it actually changes the architecture of your brain. It changes the architecture of your brain. Back--but that can be rewired if you're willing to work through it as you get older. But if not, it stays.

MONTEL WILLIAMS

And if not, the part of it that he's talking about stays, you get stuck. And as much as--as the two of you believe that you've gone ahead and grown up, and now--and you have. You've grown in so many ways. But that little girl is still there. So why not get on with it’s the next step? What do you have to lose? Explain it.

BOB PARDON

Nothing to lose and everything to gain.

MONTEL WILLIAMS

No, tell me what you have to lose.

CARYN

To go back and--and, like, unpack all those issues and go through them again is terrifying.

DAVIDA

Mm-hmm. Yeah.

MONTEL WILLIAMS

All right. Okay, you know what? It--but it can work.

AMY

Yeah.

MONTEL WILLIAMS

I got--I'm out of time. I wanna thank you all for being here. I got to give Caryn a big round of applause. Were it not for her... [applause]

MONTEL WILLIAMS

...anything we can do to help you in your pursuit of your class action lawsuit, let us know.

CARYN

How can we get in touch with them?

DAVIDA

Yes.

CARYN

I have three younger brothers and sisters...

JUDY PARDON, EXECUTIVE DIRECTOR, MEADOW HAVEN TREATMENT CENTER

We have information we can get you.

MONTEL WILLIAMS

Done. We got--we take...

BOB PARDON

We have information we can give you back.

CARYN

...that will probably need you. There are so many people out there.

MONTEL WILLIAMS We'll take care--we'll take care of that, and I will do it one more time. I said this on the last time you were here at the show, and I'll say it again. For any members of “The Family” who are out there right now watching the show today, and you now realize that there's a lot of stuff you were told that was not true, and you want information, and you wanna try to get some help, contact us here at The Montel Williams Show. You can reach us at our website, which is Montelshow.com. And if you have a story, and you wanna talk about it on our show, contact us. Call us up. I'm out of time. Thank you guys for being here.

BOB PARDON

Certainly.

[applause]

MONTEL WILLIAMS

Join us on the next Montel.

Response by The Family International

The day after the show transcribed above aired, members of The Family International posted the following statement on the web site MyConclusion.com.

In response to "Escaping a Cult," on Montel Williams

Montel Williams Show in the States (an afternoon gossip show for housewives) ran a negative program about the Family today, featuring a number of our apostates and alleging that abuse of children is encouraged in the Family, placing Family children at risk. Since the show allows no opportunity for response, neither provided a voice for the Family, we are posting some responses here.

From Claire Borowik for the Family International

Re Escaping a Cult
To Montel Williams Show and Producers

I am writing to express how appalled I am at your program's one-sided coverage. This is the second time you are airing a program featuring former members of my church, the Family International, and their allegations without contacting our church, or providing us an opportunity of response. You don’t even provide any means to contact you or send in any information.

I particularly protest on behalf of the Family the remark that "They alleged that physical, emotional, and sexual abuse are common, even encouraged, within the community." This allegation has no basis in fact, and certainly is not in line with the findings of courts on three continents that investigated the Family in the early '90s. Over 700 children born in the Family were examined at that time by court-appointed authorities, and physical, emotional, psychological and educational evaluations were carried out. Not a single case of neglect, or abuse was found, and in each case, Family communities were deemed safe environments for the children being raised in them. A truly investigative report could not ignore those findings.

If you truly wish to exercise professional journalism, you would not ignore the voices of the 500+ young people born into the Family who tell their side of the story at www.myconclusion.com. Many of these are parents themselves, raising a third generation. Their children are the ones who will suffer from this sort of irresponsible reporting. My challenge to your program is to dare to be objective, dare to report that thousands of young people born in the Family object to this sort of biased coverage and that the former members on your program don’t speak on their behalf or represent their upbringing, much less the actuality of the Family of 2007.

Claire Borowik

External links

• Official "Montel Williams Show" website
• New Montel Show on Tuesday — discussion of this show on MovingOn.org; 2007-02-02.